Beetle 1300 Single Port Heads Headache

Ask and give advice here
User avatar
Tony Z
Donor
Donor
Posts: 14992
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:33 am
What model do you have?: 2.3L 69; 1302; P/Van
Location: Klipheuwel (near Durbanville), Cape Town or working at sea
Has thanked: 191 times
Been thanked: 487 times
South Africa

Re: Beetle 1300 Single Port Heads Headache

Post by Tony Z »

spacers will move the heads away from the piston, it'll reduce the compression as required, but it;ll kill all performance and lead to a very poor combustion chamber which may detonate easily.


73type2
Pushrod
Posts: 987
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:37 am
What model do you have?: '73 T2 Single Cab
Location: Cape Town
Has thanked: 141 times
Been thanked: 100 times
France

Re: Beetle 1300 Single Port Heads Headache

Post by 73type2 »

Yes, I don't want to go there. I hope that somebody else could get use out of them, so I'll phone the guy Brian mentioned.
User avatar
retrovan
Donor
Donor
Posts: 8709
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:51 pm
What model do you have?: 52T1,68FB,72Bay,75FL
Location: Eich! no, in Jefferys Bay
Has thanked: 421 times
Been thanked: 539 times
Contact:
Netherlands

Re: Beetle 1300 Single Port Heads Headache

Post by retrovan »

Tony Z wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:03 am spacers will move the heads away from the piston, it'll reduce the compression as required, but it;ll kill all performance and lead to a very poor combustion chamber which may detonate easily.
I hear what you are saying, but no body will cut a head to :bn: if it can not be used.

May not be as easy as implied, but only a part of the concept. I always see a challenge......

Surely there must be a combination of parts to make these heads work, longer barrels, longer con rods, shorter tubes, custom exhaust, custom intakes, and lifters, something ...?

If you know the combination, you may want to keep them or it will enable the next guy to get whats needed to make these heads work.

Thats where I am going with this, Must be a super engine when done, wow... someone will get joy out of it.

OMO

Herman
1952 Split Beetle 1835cc
1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc
2020 MeFusco Beetle Truck 2Lt type 4
1972 FT Hahn SP 1776 cc
calooker
Donor
Donor
Posts: 4973
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:24 am
What model do you have?: 77 SP
Location: Johannesburg
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 98 times
Contact:

Re: Beetle 1300 Single Port Heads Headache

Post by calooker »

Those heads have been fly cut to the max approx. 4mm deep and in doing so 1 row of fins has been sacrificed for the top of sleeve not to bottom out, secondly the combustion chamber has been hacked out to get the CR to a more desired level. Those are race heads where everything that goes with them is custom.
For what it's worth, ignorance has no limits ......
User avatar
Tony Z
Donor
Donor
Posts: 14992
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:33 am
What model do you have?: 2.3L 69; 1302; P/Van
Location: Klipheuwel (near Durbanville), Cape Town or working at sea
Has thanked: 191 times
Been thanked: 487 times
South Africa

Re: Beetle 1300 Single Port Heads Headache

Post by Tony Z »

retrovan wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:06 pm
Tony Z wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:03 am spacers will move the heads away from the piston, it'll reduce the compression as required, but it;ll kill all performance and lead to a very poor combustion chamber which may detonate easily.
I hear what you are saying, but no body will cut a head to :bn: if it can not be used.

May not be as easy as implied, but only a part of the concept. I always see a challenge......

Surely there must be a combination of parts to make these heads work, longer barrels, longer con rods, shorter tubes, custom exhaust, custom intakes, and lifters, something ...?

If you know the combination, you may want to keep them or it will enable the next guy to get whats needed to make these heads work.

Thats where I am going with this, Must be a super engine when done, wow... someone will get joy out of it.

OMO

Herman
They can be used, likely very successfully in the application they were made for - Formula Vee
Look at how those chambers are ported.
Those heads would have been cut quite a bit (4mm as Rui says) to increase the compression far more than usable, then ported to unshroud the valves as per the picture and to bring the compression back to a reasonable value, then possibly flycut again to get the compression to where they wanted it.

They might be able to work on the street, but you'll need 100 or 106 octane
User avatar
retrovan
Donor
Donor
Posts: 8709
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:51 pm
What model do you have?: 52T1,68FB,72Bay,75FL
Location: Eich! no, in Jefferys Bay
Has thanked: 421 times
Been thanked: 539 times
Contact:
Netherlands

Re: Beetle 1300 Single Port Heads Headache

Post by retrovan »

Thanks Guys, much appreciated all that info,

Sure some one will benefit by it and now be able to put a label on them for future use.

Thanks Again

Herman
1952 Split Beetle 1835cc
1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc
2020 MeFusco Beetle Truck 2Lt type 4
1972 FT Hahn SP 1776 cc
73type2
Pushrod
Posts: 987
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:37 am
What model do you have?: '73 T2 Single Cab
Location: Cape Town
Has thanked: 141 times
Been thanked: 100 times
France

Re: Beetle 1300 Single Port Heads Headache

Post by 73type2 »

Thanks for all the input, guys. I'll put the heads in storage for now and if anybody needs them, just let me know.
73type2
Pushrod
Posts: 987
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:37 am
What model do you have?: '73 T2 Single Cab
Location: Cape Town
Has thanked: 141 times
Been thanked: 100 times
France

Re: Beetle 1300 Single Port Heads Headache

Post by 73type2 »

retrovan wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:06 pm
Tony Z wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:03 am spacers will move the heads away from the piston, it'll reduce the compression as required, but it;ll kill all performance and lead to a very poor combustion chamber which may detonate easily.
I hear what you are saying, but no body will cut a head to :bn: if it can not be used.

May not be as easy as implied, but only a part of the concept. I always see a challenge......

Surely there must be a combination of parts to make these heads work, longer barrels, longer con rods, shorter tubes, custom exhaust, custom intakes, and lifters, something ...?

If you know the combination, you may want to keep them or it will enable the next guy to get whats needed to make these heads work.

Thats where I am going with this, Must be a super engine when done, wow... someone will get joy out of it.

OMO

Herman
I get what you're saying, Herman. I might do the experiment with a spare engine and parts I have lying around. By the looks of it, I need to modify the intake manifold, silencer, pushrod tubes and pushrods. I have some spare 1200 parts which might work. I know the 1200 intake won't work, but I hope the 1200 pushrods might work. Collapsible tubes will take care of the shortened tube length.
User avatar
retrovan
Donor
Donor
Posts: 8709
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:51 pm
What model do you have?: 52T1,68FB,72Bay,75FL
Location: Eich! no, in Jefferys Bay
Has thanked: 421 times
Been thanked: 539 times
Contact:
Netherlands

Re: Beetle 1300 Single Port Heads Headache

Post by retrovan »

73type2 wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:05 pm ....... I might do the experiment with a spare engine and parts I have lying around. ....
Agree with you, the little bit of work to do those modes will be well worth it

And if you already have the other bits, ....what an exciting project,

I am jealous but filled with excitement for you

Have fun with it.

Herman
1952 Split Beetle 1835cc
1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc
2020 MeFusco Beetle Truck 2Lt type 4
1972 FT Hahn SP 1776 cc
73type2
Pushrod
Posts: 987
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:37 am
What model do you have?: '73 T2 Single Cab
Location: Cape Town
Has thanked: 141 times
Been thanked: 100 times
France

Re: Beetle 1300 Single Port Heads Headache

Post by 73type2 »

Just an update on the heads. The original owner of the heads contacted me and we made a deal. He'll use the heads for Formula Vee, as originally intended. The proceeds of the sale will cover the cost of rebuilding my 1300 twinport heads.
brianj
Single Port
Posts: 1272
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:56 pm
What model do you have?: 67DC 66Fasty, 71West
Location: JHB
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Beetle 1300 Single Port Heads Headache

Post by brianj »

Glad you got sorted, hope it all works out
73type2
Pushrod
Posts: 987
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:37 am
What model do you have?: '73 T2 Single Cab
Location: Cape Town
Has thanked: 141 times
Been thanked: 100 times
France

Re: Beetle 1300 Single Port Heads Headache

Post by 73type2 »

Another update:

With the proceeds of the Formula Vee heads I could offset the costs of rebuilding my 1300 twin port heads. The heads are now installed and I hope to start the engine tomorrow. Here is a pic of an engine test stand I made by modifying a redundant gym dumbbell stand and some scrap steel. I was also lucky to have an old broken 1200 gearbox bell housing lying around, so I ground in the required areas for fitting the 1300 and installed the bush for using a 12V starter in a 6V housing.

Image

I just need to prep and spray the air filter housing and some other bits tomorrow morning and should turn the key later in the day.


Image
User avatar
retrovan
Donor
Donor
Posts: 8709
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:51 pm
What model do you have?: 52T1,68FB,72Bay,75FL
Location: Eich! no, in Jefferys Bay
Has thanked: 421 times
Been thanked: 539 times
Contact:
Netherlands

Re: Beetle 1300 Single Port Heads Headache

Post by retrovan »

Great result, so happy to see it all worked out in the end and you benefited from the heads.

Nice work with the motor as well as the stand.

Sure she will run just fine.

Herman
1952 Split Beetle 1835cc
1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc
2020 MeFusco Beetle Truck 2Lt type 4
1972 FT Hahn SP 1776 cc
73type2
Pushrod
Posts: 987
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:37 am
What model do you have?: '73 T2 Single Cab
Location: Cape Town
Has thanked: 141 times
Been thanked: 100 times
France

Re: Beetle 1300 Single Port Heads Headache

Post by 73type2 »

Yeah, and just as I was planning a nice aircooled wrenching Sunday, my family changed my plans for me and we’re going for brunch trip. Maybe I’ll still have the afternoon to myself...
73type2
Pushrod
Posts: 987
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:37 am
What model do you have?: '73 T2 Single Cab
Location: Cape Town
Has thanked: 141 times
Been thanked: 100 times
France

Re: Beetle 1300 Single Port Heads Headache

Post by 73type2 »

I finally got around to turning the key on the test stand yesterday. Cranking to get oil pressure didn’t cause the oil pressure light to go out!! Oil pressure was fine before the engine refresh, but I have removed the oil pump cover plate to sand and spray it. I replaced it without sanding the figure 8 scour marks and added a new gasket. I did some reading and the advice was to sand the plate on a flat surface until it is smooth and install with sealant, no gasket. I sanded for more than an hour and reinstalled with Shellac gasket sealer. I then removed the oil sender and hand cranked to see whether oil flowed out, which it did. I replaced the sender and the oil light went out after a couple of seconds of cranking. Oil pressure problem solved!

Question: I installed honed barrels with new rings. On first startup, what do I do? Do I need to keep the revs high for some time period? Or, can I just install the engine and go drive?

Here’s the fully assembled engine:

Image
Post Reply