2.0 Golf in a Late Bay

[hendriks]

Hi all!

Please share your experiences, thoughts and pictures on installing a 2L 8v golf eninge into a late bay.

What are the pro's/con's, cost of different components - adapter plates, flywheel, radiators, brakes and so on. Should you opt for fuel injection/carb?

From what I've been able to research, it is a good conversion in terms of power to weight, drivibility (long and short disctance), parts are readily available, the gearbox won't complain under "normal' driving conditions, you can fit it without completely messing up the engine compartment (in other words, it should be fairly easy to convert back to aircooled...)? Fuel consumption isn't bad (10km/l - feel free to comment)

If this topic has been discussed in the past, please refer me there...

If not I'm looking forward to your views and comments

[hendriks]

Anyone:?:

[Drusky]

I chatted over the phone once to a guy in PE who had a water-cooled golf engine in his late bay. He struggled with over heating. Radiator was mounted under the front end (no braai grid style thing on the nose).

That said I believe there was a company in Pretoria that did conversions for the army back in the day. JD Power? Their conversion worked. I think they put a 2L water-cooled motor in, not sure of the make. They had a radiator up front built into the nose of the Kombi. Not as ugly as the braai grid style but nonetheless very visible.

It can be doen btu you will have the usual considerations. What about braking, gearbox ratio & rpm at speed, what about the ability of all that stuff to handle the extra energy etc etc.

Did you google the topic?
http://www.google.co.za/search?hl=en&cl ... =&aql=&oq=

[Golfmad]

My Bay has a 2E (2.0 8v) Gti engine complete with Dicktator EFi. I bought it like that from previous owner, so I have no idea what the costs involved were, but these 2E / ADY engines from importers are around R3,500 - R4000.

My radiator is also build into the nose, which was cut to accommodate airflow over the radiator, and its got like a fibreglass panel/box covering the rear of the radiator, which pertrudes into the cabin a bit. But I am also having some trouble with cooling, as in my opinion the head is running a bit hot, but that is probably due to the airlocks which is notoriously difficult to bleed.

I will remedy this by taking the small pipe that currently goes from the expansion bottle to the one big pipe from radiator, to the water flange at the top of the head where the heat sensor is, making in fact a Y piece so that I can stiil retain the heat sender. This is the highest point in the water system so it should help with bleeding any air from the system.

Only thing is that since I still have the 1600 gearbox, ratios are high in 4th, so she revs quite a bit at 110 - 120.

[hendriks]

I chatted over the phone once to a guy in PE who had a water-cooled golf engine in his late bay. He struggled with over heating. Radiator was mounted under the front end (no braai grid style thing on the nose).

That said I believe there was a company in Pretoria that did conversions for the army back in the day. JD Power? Their conversion worked. I think they put a 2L water-cooled motor in, not sure of the make. They had a radiator up front built into the nose of the Kombi. Not as ugly as the braai grid style but nonetheless very visible.

It can be doen btu you will have the usual considerations. What about braking, gearbox ratio & rpm at speed, what about the ability of all that stuff to handle the extra energy etc etc.

Did you google the topic?
http://www.google.co.za/search?hl=en&cl ... =&aql=&oq=

Hi Drusky,
My Dc had a Ford V6 engine in at some point and has a huge hole in the front - I'm busy fixing that and if i go with a watercooled engine, the radiator will be "hidden" somewhere.
I have googled the topic plenty using different search words/combinations. Most of the info is on Subaru engines...

Thanks for your response though!!!

[hendriks]

My Bay has a 2E (2.0 8v) Gti engine complete with Dicktator EFi. I bought it like that from previous owner, so I have no idea what the costs involved were, but these 2E / ADY engines from importers are around R3,500 - R4000.

My radiator is also build into the nose, which was cut to accommodate airflow over the radiator, and its got like a fibreglass panel/box covering the rear of the radiator, which pertrudes into the cabin a bit. But I am also having some trouble with cooling, as in my opinion the head is running a bit hot, but that is probably due to the airlocks which is notoriously difficult to bleed.

I will remedy this by taking the small pipe that currently goes from the expansion bottle to the one big pipe from radiator, to the water flange at the top of the head where the heat sensor is, making in fact a Y piece so that I can stiil retain the heat sender. This is the highest point in the water system so it should help with bleeding any air from the system.

Only thing is that since I still have the 1600 gearbox, ratios are high in 4th, so she revs quite a bit at 110 - 120.

Hi Golfmad,

I've seen some of the import motors and the price and that is one of the reasons i'm asking about it. A Subaru EJ20 or 22 will cost about R6300 (and more) and I am not looking to race my van (not now anyway...)
Overheating is obviously a concern and one that I'll research properly before deciding on water/aircooled. I have a 2L box with much better gear ratios and should help when driving on the highway... the advantage of the golf engines are that they car rev at 5000 all day ( a bit expensive, but doable...)

Thanks for your reply

I've seen some posts on your restoration and van, but have you taken any pics of your engine hanger? Also, do you have pics of the gearbox adapter plate by any chance? Although it'll be different from the 2L box it will be interresting to see...

[Hloni]

GM, any specific reason why do you want to go watercooled? I know you currently doing your homework, but it would be great to hear the reasoning of various folk of why they went watercooled.

[Golfmad]

Hey Hendriks

I dont have any pics of that, but Ill take some when I get a chance and post them up.

Hi Hloni

Actually I bought it with the watercooled convertion allready done by previous owner, so I decided Ill stick to that for now, as she does run quite nicely and power is awesome, but ya, like many things the previous owner did was kinda "backyard fixing to keep it running" so I want to sort all that stuff out, and get the mechanical bits 100%. Next week she is going in for wiring to be redone.... the old wiring is rubbish and been modded so much i cant make head nor tails of whats going on there.

[Hloni]

Hendricks, any specific reason why do you want to go watercooled? I know you currently doing your homework, but it would be great to hear the reasoning of various folk of why they went watercooled.

[hendriks]

Hendricks, any specific reason why do you want to go watercooled? I know you currently doing your homework, but it would be great to hear the reasoning of various folk of why they went watercooled.

Hloni,
Good question.
Others might say "go buy a modern caravelle or Vito" - I don't have that kind of money and also love the old kombis... My first task is to get the bodywork back to original (replacing nose skin, parts of the outriggers, engine metal work, and some body work) as I really love the Bay window look. If it had a working engine, I wouldn't even consider watercooled untill the aircooled broke. Also I don't like the radiator on the nose look.

watercooled:
- I can get a running Golf engine for under R4k and if it breakes, I can get parts for it anywhere in SA, Should it break down.
- I intend to use my bus for long trips and hauling stuff around town on a regular basis.
- I dont want to race but do enjoy a little power, we often go camping, so a trailer goes along.
- kombi gearbox, brakes can be used as is
- Fuel consumption will probable be better


aircooled
- The kombi was designed to be aircooled (originally)
- A running (but not overhaulled) 2L costs about R7000
- Parts are not available at your local Midas never mind small towns
- to overhaul a 2l would cost about R4 - 7k depending on what needs to be done (don't quote me here)

No matter what engine I put in it'll be a challenge as this is my first van I work on.
If I ever get a german split bus, I would stick to aircooled as it will be a weekend/show car and not a long distance / holiday car.
That's what I'm thinking at the moment.

[hitlers revenge]

My radiator is also build into the nose, which was cut to accommodate airflow over the radiator, and its got like a fibreglass panel/box covering the rear of the radiator, which pertrudes into the cabin a bit. But I am also having some trouble with cooling, as in my opinion the head is running a bit hot, but that is probably due to the airlocks which is notoriously difficult to bleed.

Tony Z wrote a thread somewhere on here about Kombi Radiators. Airflow must go through the radiator, therefore you need space between the radiator and the front of the bus. This lets the cold air in and the hot air can move freely away from the back of the radiator.

[VW1600S]

A friend of mine told me he once saw a turbo diesel powered bay but he doesn't know from which car the engine came from. I've seen for sale on ebay UK rear porsche 944 brakes with the suspension arms to put on kombis. I've bougt a set from the scrap from a 924Turbo for my 1303 and the disk brakes are vented.
I've read that it is possible to put the rear brakes from an 80's microbus on a bay, advantage being that they are self adjusting - has anyone done this?
Is it possible to put a caravelle or microbus 5spd gearbox on a bay? This would ease the revs and probably facilitate adaptation of other engines

[Dawie]

Unfortunately the 5-speed from the 2.5/ 2.6 is more of a close ratio effort. 5th is not much taller than the 4-speed. Diff is similar ratio to some 4-speed versions.

2.6 5th ratio: 0.82:1 (Source: Car road test as in "resources" on this website).
4-speed from 2.3, 1.9, 2.1, and aircooled "brick shape bodied" 1981-2L kombis were 0.85:1
4-speed 2L baywindows have 0.89:1- 4th but 4.57 diff. (Wasserboxer 1.9/ 2.1 had shorter 4.86 diff.)
Baywindow 1600 had tall 0.82 4th, but short diff, 5.429:1 or 5.375:1

The "brick shape" kombi transmission uses a different shift mechanism. The linkage connects to the side of the transmission instead of the tailpiece/nosepiece.

[syncromad]

Hi Guys

he Golf 2.0i with fuel injection is a great conversion, we fit a lot to T 3 syncro's. They are cheapish , very reliable if fitted properly, don't need the radiator up front can be fitted under the bus on the sides with and electric fans, just needs to be done correctly. They can handle rev's, start to red line at 6100rpm. as said before will run all day at 5000rpm. 85kw and 171 nm much stronger than a 2.0 air-cooled, and did i say this very reliable if done correctly. parts are easy to find and they are cheap to replace. and should give 9-10km/litre. will easily do 130-140km/h in a bay.

i have a customer with a Toyota 2ct, 2.0 turbo diesel in his late bay, he gets 14km/litre at 110km/h, i also have a toyato 3ct, 2.2 td in my one syncro, gives 9km/l at 100km/h. a golf 2.0i will give the same at 130km/h.

the revs are not an issue, all engines will rev the same at the same speed in a specific bus, the gear ratio's determine this, not the motor.ie 120km/h at 45000 rpm will be the same with any motor.

The 2.0 golf motors fit into the bay window very nicely no body cuts needed but you do need to modify the valance you can also run it with a carb to save costs, power will be down a little but will still be way more that the air-coooled had.

Subaru's are very nice, flat 4 or 6, but are complicated and expensive, we just did a cambelt and tensioners on a 3.3 6 cyl that we fitted to a syncro, that cost Nearly R7000-00 parts only, need to do the water-pump now and that is R 1680-00 and a 4 week delivery from subaru.

VW fits the Golf 1.6i into the new bay's in Brazil, the 2.0 is more powerful than the 1.6. i can guarantee you you will be happy with the 2.0i, they even work well in beetles, with the radiator where the spare wheel was.

Stuart
083 629 9951

[hendriks]

Stuart,
Some good and interresting advice you giving here! Thanks for your input!

Do you perhaps know how the 1.8 golf/jetta engine differes from the 2.0? Can you use the same adapter plate plate/flywheel for both engines. Why I'm asking is I have a 1.8 engine but would rather get a 2.0 if it is going to be worth it?
Thanks