New Type4 casings in South Africa / Nicasil Cylinders

WestyT2 · Post by **WestyT2** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:31 am

Hi there friends

I am a new member. On Jake Raby's website he states that he can get brand new type 4 casings from a supplier in South Africa. Does anybody know who this supplier is?

Is there anyone in South Africa who has bought those expensive Nicasil Cylinders as used by Porsche (available from Jake Raby, JN Engineering or Aircooled.net, all in the USA). Is it worth the money over the (very) long term if one wants to build a bullet-proof engine?

Thumper · Post by **Thumper** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:38 am

Welcome WestyT2.

I am not sure if the initial cost of a robust engine will be more than a 'regular' rebuild evry few years. Depends on how you are going to treat the motor. But I would rather build a balanced, strong engine and not worry about reliabilty. What do you say Rui?

Post by **IMPI** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:37 pm

Hi Those casings on jake,s site seems to be new old stock but I dont know from whom or where.
There is a company in SA that builds nicasil cylinders from scratch but its very expensive.
I have lost out on every fancy engine I built for myself primarily because its never fast enough and because I am always building them and selling them on to fund the next project. Nicasils are the best in reliability but like a diesel car you need to drive them at least 200000km to see any benefit

WestyT2 · Post by **WestyT2** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:04 pm

Thats just the thing, Thumper. I need a (very) reliable engine, as I use my beloved Kombi Camper to travel to far and remote places in Africa where I cannot afford to have a breakdown. I would rather build a bullet proof engine once and for all than rebuilt the engine every few years even if it cost more(but I doubt it as my children will one day inherit the Bus... I want to build a ultra reliable engine that will last more than 160 000 km's with normal maintenance and carefull considerate driving. I never overrev or labour the engine and change the oil regularly. I know that a type 4 engine is stronger than a type 1 engine but my Bus is a late 1969 model and I have heard that the 1968-1971 Bus is the most difficult Vw to convert to type 4 power.(I am happy to cruise at 100/110km/h but extra torque for hills will be very welcome.) So I'll have to use a strong type 1 engine. I want to know from you experts if the following will create a long lasting reliable 2017cc engine : I want to use a new Auto Linea Type 1 aliminum casing (with oil filter) together with 90.5mm Nicasil Cylinders, forged pistons,forged counterweighted 78.4mm crank, 043 heads with stainless steel valves and Weber 40 carbs. The whole rotating mass must be balanced. My current cooling system uses the single-port fan housing/shroud, but I want to know if a 1600 doghouse setup will provide sufficient cooling for the proposed engine (Nickies run much cooler than cast iron cylinders) And if I use cast iron cylinders instead of the Nickies? I was 2 yaers old when my Dad bought the Bus (imported from Germany) and it really is in an excellent original condition. Please give me sound advice. Thank you

Post by **calooker** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:13 pm

Both T1 and T4 motors have their issues, but in my opinion many of the issues from the T1 motor were sorted when VW produced the T4, but one issue in the T4 remained, dropping valve seats has been a common problem.
Price is also an issue T4 is much more expensive to rebuild than T1, as T1 parts are more readily available. I did a comparison some time ago, that is comparing building a 2L spec T4 and a slightly modded T1 to also come in at 2L everything new except the block as I was unable to find a price on a new T4 block, the T1 would cost less than half of the T4 but if you were adapting the T4 for use in a bug then it would just not make sense cause the parts needed and costs involved to modify it for upright cooling were over the top.
I don't see why a motor with new parts as mentioned in the previous post should not hold out for 160000 km's, hell they did this in std 1200cc. With added oil filtration etc, a "new" T1 will go the distance I'm sure. One thing I would reconsider is the use of twin carbs, as they do need TLC, a single center mount carb would make more sense for your intended use, electronic ignition would also be something worth considering, as well as a deep sump. In a nutshell, both motors have their pros & cons, so start with what you have at the moment and take it from there.
Remember this there is nothing like reliable, affordable, performance, you can only pick 2.
When I build a motor for someone I always tell them that, it makes heaps of sense to them after they ask for a fire breathing, cheap, long lasting motor.
I know there are others with different opinions but this is my 50c worth.

WestyT2 · Post by **WestyT2** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:29 pm

Thanks, Calooker, I agree that there is no such thing as a cheap long lasting engine, that is why I dont want to cut corners and want to build it first time right. That is why I want expert advice. I also prefer a single carb setup, but I have been told that above 1600cc one should use 2 carbs for efficiency reasons - some say 2 carbs make an engine run cooler than one carb - is that true? Apparantly that is why Vw themselves used 2 carbs or fuel injection on the type 4 engines. Ultimately I would like to have fuel injection, but I am afraid of the afternarket systems available. If I get stuck somewhere, somebody at a"normal' garage or Bosch Sevice Station should be able to help me. The other thing is dust - one of an air cooled engines biggest enemies. At the moment I have the standard oil bath air cleaner. With FI or a single carb filtration should be easier, I don't want to worry next time I tour the Namib desert. What is your opinion on the cooling issues? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Post by **calooker** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:14 pm

Please note I'm no expert, but I do like to share my views. Heat and the air-cooled VW are not a good mix, the cooler, within reason the air-cooled motor runs the longer/more reliable it will be.
You are running the oil-bath filtration system at the moment and you will not find a better setup, stick with it. Once you upgrade you will then be looking at a K&N washable filter as the next best option.
Efficiency can be defined in many ways or from different angles, so it depends on the end product, intended use, cost and many other variables.
In my opinion efficiency would be getting 130 Hp out of a 1600cc with a consumption of 15 km per 1L of fuel, but there would be many other compromises that would have to be made to achieve this "ideal" motor, so VW made compromises and changes after many tests and studies and came up with something they could consider ideal for the situation presented to them at that time.
Consider fitting some form of oil filtration and an additional oil cooler to your current setup, every bit of additional cooling/filtration will help, get a doghouse cooling system, especially for desert use.

Post by **IMPI** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:41 pm

If I were to build an engine for ultimate reliability I would
Counterweight and 8 dowel the crank
I would also ad an extra thrust bearing to the no3 main bearing
Use 1500 pistons and sleeves (thicker more dimensionally stable)
singleport heads
stock cam and lifters
Use an hard anodised oil pump (Schadeck)
late as 21 casing (Auto linea yeah but cost)
a new carb and std distrubutor
Dog house withe late fan and a type four oil cooler in the stock place
Nice full flow oil filter
Armand

WestyT2 · Post by **WestyT2** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:06 pm

Thanks IMPI . I took a few weeks off for my annual leave. I also love the 1500 engine,one of Vw's best engines. Are the 1600 and 1500 singleport heads the same? I know that there are only 3hp difference between 1500 and 1600 sp engines but wont the loss of torque if I build a 1500 engine be a big problem when touring and tackling mountain passes in a heavy Bay Window Westfalia Camper? Wouldn't it put so much load on the 1500 that it will shorten its life anyway? I am a considerate driver/owner but still? Where can I find new 1500 pistons and sleeves and a new (complete) doghouse setup including everything,aliminum fins/flaps/thermostat included? I appreciate your advice. WestyT2

Post by **calooker** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:53 pm

1500 / 1600 single port heads are the same, can be used on either engine, even 1300 heads can be used with a little engineering work, valves will be smaller though.
Load on a motor will always tax it and reduce life, it will be one of the compromises you will be faced with.
You can still buy new 1600 liners/pistons but I think you are going to battle to find a new set of 1500's, I battled to get a set of rings last year for a stock 1500 I rebuilt, you can try Alert, their prices can't be beat, or engine parts would be my second choice VS. will take you to the cleaners, shop around.
If you are on the market for new liners/pistons I would consider a set of 90,5mm Mahle's similar cylinder wall thickness as the 1500 and will give you a little more HP, will have to do some engineering work to the heads / block though, and are available for a similar price of an imported set of 1500's. There are also 88mm liners/pistons which have the thickest cylinder wall thickness of all on the market, referred to as machine in 88's.
Loose the thermostat, no need for it with out weather, its intended use was for the long freezing German winters, fortunately we come no where near their winters.
You will not find new German tin second hand will be a far better option, than the new "cheap" IMPI stuff, I can help you with the tin, let me know, I have a few mates with plenty of stock.

vader · Post by **vader** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:50 pm

That list of parts must be costing you a bit. What are the nikkies going for now 12k? Do you have the funds for this project? The only thing I'm an expert in is sex, so here is my 5cents, it sounds like you have done a lot of reading and I got to agree with you, the Nikkies ROCK! I should have bought them when I had the money! It's a lot of money but I regret not buying them! You know what your bus has to do and the type of power you need over the terain you need to cover. If you really want to be safe over engineer, if you got the funds take the nikkies, sort the fan cowl. DTM was the one I was gonna use, sorry Impi I cant comment on yours as I haven't used/seen one. I was talked out of what I wanted big mistake. So what I'm saying is go with your heart but learn and adapt from others.

Riftvalleyvw · Post by **Riftvalleyvw** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:20 pm

Hi Guys. Really. Nickeys arent worth the money for a street car. If you guys really want them let me know. My partner makes them but I wont even use them myself because unless you are generating more than 75 HP per cylinder, there is no benifit. You will SHORTEN the life of a engine by using them because of the added expansion and contraction of the aluminum. Their ownly benifit is that they cool better than cast iron.

Post by **eben** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:04 am

Hey Rift,
You really have to post some pics man... I'm way too curious about the setup you have going on up there

Blitzkrieg · Post by **Blitzkrieg** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:06 am

Riftvalleyvw wrote:Hi Guys. Really. Nickeys arent worth the money for a street car. If you guys really want them let me know. My partner makes them but I wont even use them myself because unless you are generating more than 75 HP per cylinder, there is no benifit. You will SHORTEN the life of a engine by using them because of the added expansion and contraction of the aluminum. Their ownly benifit is that they cool better than cast iron.

Pics and Price please

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:12 am

Pic:

Price: A lot.