Mild 1600TP Turbo engine

[Bratjie]

Perfect solution... move the turbo higher and drain into the tappet cover

Good solution, but I paid R 2000.00 for a tuck away exhaust system, gonna be costly to modify. That's the only other solution I think, just had a thought about tapping into the casing, the oil level in the drain pipe will be the same as inside the engine, sort of like on your dipstick, so it wont drain anyway, only way is to let it drain freely into an open space such as the valve cover.

[4agedub]

If you simply mount an adaptor onto your current system?? eg a piece of pipe with two flanges.

[Bratjie]

Could work, but wont the turbo create a lot of heat that'll be sucked in by the fan and circulate heated air all the time, could overheat?
Will give it some thought

[vader]

I got to go with 4AD on this one. You got to get it higher as IMHO the turbo is too low for gravity to help the drainage. Ive seen this solution on a few bugs and its wat Ill be doing WHEN I get there. fit the turbo by above the gearbox, run the collector of the exhaust to the turbo and then your "boost pipe" up over the top to the fancowel into the carb. Now you can drain the oil into the tappit cover. If you are worried about the air temp into the fan you could always run 2inch aircon ducting from either side of the rear suspention upto the fans inlet which would give you "force induced" ambient temp air to your fan and will aid in the cooling of the motor by at least 10% ... You just need to fit a filter on the inlet of the ducting so that no road debris get pumped into the fan...

If you are gonna leave the turbo where it is i would think you are gonna need a scavenger pump to pump the oil away....

[Bratjie]

I got to go with 4AD on this one. You got to get it higher as IMHO the turbo is too low for gravity to help the drainage. Ive seen this solution on a few bugs and its wat Ill be doing WHEN I get there. fit the turbo by above the gearbox, run the collector of the exhaust to the turbo and then your "boost pipe" up over the top to the fancowel into the carb. Now you can drain the oil into the tappit cover. If you are worried about the air temp into the fan you could always run 2inch aircon ducting from either side of the rear suspention upto the fans inlet which would give you "force induced" ambient temp air to your fan and will aid in the cooling of the motor by at least 10% ... You just need to fit a filter on the inlet of the ducting so that no road debris get pumped into the fan...

If you are gonna leave the turbo where it is i would think you are gonna need a scavenger pump to pump the oil away....

AH-HAH, that's the word I was looking for " scavenger pump" I really think it could work, lemme show you what I mean, the offset is not Major!!
The Yellow line in the picture would be more or less where the oil returnline would run, I can even lower it some more, it would just make taking the cover off sometimes a little dificult due to the cover clip, yeah I think this can work

Now where would I find a " scavenger pump " ?

[vader]

All you need is a suitable electric oil pump. Try DaveR @ flat4racing....

Ok I see you a bit far away to try Dave maybe the boys up North can help you with one....

[Bugger]

One of the Best Scavanger pump setups I have seen was on Dave Ingles carburetor turboed bug

He used a beetle oil pump with a std coverplate then turned it around and fitted it inbetween the bottom pully and alternator pully with a small toothed belt briving the pump
So you can make your own as the Electric Scavanger Pumps is not R5 they are $$$$$

[Bratjie]

All you need is a suitable electric oil pump. Try DaveR @ flat4racing....

Ok I see you a bit far away to try Dave maybe the boys up North can help you with one....

I bought most of the parts from him and he ships quickly, however some lurking on the horizon

You know when you get to a stage in a project where you think , shyte, I can see the light, almost there, just a few more things, couple a day's , this weekend I'm gonna turn that key??
Well all that just got blown away today I went to see a few guy's that build specific race motors, real scary stuff, like a K600 car and so on, these guy's look like they know what they're doing, real dragstrip fundi's, one called Hannes Minnaar, really impressed me with the knowledge he shared and wow the car's in his establishment, iv'e never seen before, told me

That unless I go watercooled intercooler or meth/water injection my motor won't last in the temperatures we experience in this country unless I do a draw through setup which cools intake air in itself already, together with ceramic coating pistons, extra cooling and filters and the list goes on, Turbomanx on the Samba made it look so easy???

Oh the woe's, Iv'e spent my "first born right's " and just so many hours and nearly got in trouble at work because of this obsession that I'm completely just demoralised. I wrote Dave Rowley about the heat and temperatures but he hasn't replied yet, when I read the Samba threads I never took into account their location, weather, temperatures plus the draw through setup completely went woosh through my brain, I read about water/meth injection but never took particular interest cause I thought it just another big American hype and show-off.
Now I have the cooling problem and the oil return from Turbo problem, I'm hoping for a miracle and I hope someone can give me some real hope,

Is the heat and temperature really such a big problem since it'll be a daily driver with some nice boosted sprints now and again? I mean I'm not going to enter drag races and run 1/4 miles all day long?

Someone please give me some help here, really, really desperate right now

[calooker]

Heat is a aircooled biggest enemy, a blow thru turbo is going to compound your cooling issues. You will need additional oil cooling as well as more oil volume, just as important as filtration. Turbomania by Bob Tomlinson is a must read for anyone doing this mod.
Buddy running a
1776cc with a T25 at 0.5 boost thru a 36 DRLA with modulator rings made 68 Kw on the wheels 009 dizzy had to be locked out at about 20 deg. Adv. But still heating and detonation problems cost him a turbo and about 1500 kms later the motor. If you had a deep sump you can drain oil there. You need to run cold plugs and the stock length plug in this type of plug is non existent.

[Bugger]

As Calooker said also heat is the enemy

But do not give up so soon


Fitting a charge cooler is not a big problem Speak to Wentzel he stay in one of the countrys hotter areas he also went charge cooling with smiles
Keep boost low and for Pinnging make sure your deckhight is more than 1.5 mm and keep the compression to around 7.5 for starters
Water meth injection is also not a problem

You use a hop swith(Set to say .3bar ) and a waterbotle that you pressurize with your own boost generated from the turbo and a Nitrous Oxide nozzel
So on .3 bar boost the water gets sprayed in to the intake as simple as that you do not need to buy all these fancy available kits there is on the market
and the water injection makes mincemeat of the detonation
Start with normal water with out methanol and when it is getting tuned you will see if you need methanol when you boost higher

Flagbuggy was built with 2.4 L Type 4 motor with out a intercooler and I have driven from East Rand to Harties to Race there and DRiven it back
When the motor is getting hotter I could see the boost actually dropped and power as the Air temp got hotter the Hotter air temp is the more power you looses

Go deep sump if you can not fit dry sump and a 32mm oil pump with a front mounted oil cooler
If you can keep oil temp down then you wone most of the battle already

[calooker]

You will notice that 90% of all the big HP beetles run suck thru systems.

[4agedub]

He used a beetle oil pump with a std coverplate then turned it around and fitted it inbetween the bottom pully and alternator pully with a small toothed belt briving the pump

Now that's a good idea. I buit a similar thing long ago to prime the entire oil system on a bug engine. It was driven by a drill though. The oil was then pumped into the full flow pipe and all the channels primed before first startup.

High oil temperatures will kill an aircooled engine. If you can keep the oil temp under 100'c than it should last forever.

Cooling the intake charge does make a huge difference. Those turboed buggies built by Volkspares that was exported had no intercoolers. The first time you boost it, it goes like stink. 2nd time a bit less, 3rd time you can really feel the power went down. Cruise it for a bit to cool down and the power is back. It's all got to do with the intake temp and combustion temperature.

For the oil return problem, as bugger mentioned a deep sump might even help for that if you can return into the deep sump.

[vader]

Ditto...

[Bratjie]

Thanks for coming through for me guy's, I really appreciate it, I'm such a loser when I "sukkel"

I got quotes for the following, a bit expensive for me right now, and maybe I can make alternate plans so please advise?

Sump Beetle thin line ( what Volkspares call it) is this the extra sump you bolt on like the pic?
Oil cooler 72 row with fan
Oil pump with filter
Oil cooler adaptor sandwich???/ no clue what this is.
Inter cooler 340 x 220 x 70
All in all costing another 6k and the missus won't have any of it, this is divorce material after all I've spent so far
So I'm thinking of getting the sump & oil pump with filter but try and get a cheaper version intercooler and maybe source an oil cooler from some other car and a really strong fan,
The idea is to put the oilcooler behind the intercooler ( like on top of each other like you find in watercooled engine in the front valance) somewhere next to the gearbox where there might just be enough space ( don't want to cut any part of the car up) with a scoop and some mesh in front to eliminate damage from stones & stuff, then laying pipes oil & air back to the engine.

I don't know where else to put it and could'nt find any sort of reference of where other guy's may have put it. I was thinking in the yellow & red spaces marked in the pic's below (sorry bad examples) in a more upright position with a scoop to direct windflow upwards with a fan sucking air through?

Is this the type of sump I need? and do you think this conversion would work ??

[IMPI]

In order to test your system I would drill into the casing at the type three point as suggested earlier (Your engine is still clean inside and a normal vacuum cleaner will remove all the drills shavings if you are care full (not ideal but not so bad either) If your drain is parralell with the oil level in the sump it will still work) use at least 20mm id
Armand