Hydrogen fuel kit

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whitewall
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Re: Hydrogen fuel kit

Post by whitewall »

Matt wrote:there are a few guys in my area that are running these kits in there car. the 1 guy in particular,who makes these kit-he has an old golf 1(80's model)
and hes presently getting 28 K's to a litre.

ive got notes that im currently busy with, its for a "smacks booster". it has all the specs and drawings necessary to build yr own kit.
it will work, coz hydrogen boosts the fuel.....its very flamable/combustible. unlike that bullshit bio-fuel...it dcreases performance and increases
fuel consumption.

if and wen i finish...ill post what consumption specs i get
Hi, Finally after reading same posts, i`m convinced that South Africa motorists getting a wake up about HHO, :hangloose: in my opinion HHO really works, and that is a fact, if you have the right type of cell.
Most of the peoples normally read on the net "make your own generator bla bla bla, Jars and wires, just not work, why? they draw much amps, high temperature, low out put.
So what to do? build the right cell to achieve the best results, and that is a DRY CELL, why? is the latest tech in HHO production, Low amps, low temperature, high out put, at 10 AMPS, can generate 60L/H or 1L/Minute, this is what i`m talking about, 1L/Minute really make a difference in to the combustion, to have same savings, remember not all the engines react the same,same engines (depend on the tune up and driver habits) can achieve up 30% savings, my car 2.2 fuel eject. VW give me 16.25 K/L :hangloose: If any one out there want build a DRY CELL like my, check all info is for FREE.
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Re: Hydrogen fuel kit

Post by karmakoma »

:roll:
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Re: Hydrogen fuel kit

Post by Pine »

Perhaps it is just a matter of getting the sequence right?

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Re: Hydrogen fuel kit

Post by BigBear »

Hydrogen or Water4Gas is a Joke ... :roll:

http://www.opelownersforum.co.za/forum/ ... 05&start=0

http://www.water4gas.com/home.php

http://www.auto-facts.org/water4gas-scam.html

Old Motoring Scam :roll:

The other options are basically LPG or Methanol Injection ..
LPG is used overseas on the big V8's etc .. You need a big tank and the gains isn't worth the cost.
http://www.thegreencarwebsite.co.uk/blo ... ful-guide/
http://www.lpg-vehicles.co.uk/lpg_conve ... ersion.htm
http://www.autogassolutions.co.uk/
http://www.lpgautogas.co.za/

Alcohol/Water/Methanol Injection works, but i would be very carefull :?

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/
http://www.snowperformance.net/
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/
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Re: Hydrogen fuel kit

Post by Pine »

Please do tell me more about the alcohol injection!

*hic* :drunks:
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Re: Hydrogen fuel kit

Post by BigBear »

hahaha :drunks: not that type it would be IsoPropylAlcohol i think :lol:

Mostly used on Turbo Petrol / Diesel Cars

Some FAQ's from DevilsOwn Water/Meth Injection:

How does alcohol/water injection work?
By injecting a fine spray of alcohol/water into the inlet air stream of the engine, the charge air is dramatically cooled and the effective octane of the fuel is raised. Both help to eliminate detonation — the enemy of any engine, especially those using today's lower octane fuel under boost.

Can alcohol/water injection damage my motor?
Not if installed and used properly. As long as the injection system is working properly, it can only do good things. Since the alcohol will dissolve carbon buildup, It will help keep your plugs, valves, and combustion chambers very clean.

My turbo/supercharged engine runs standard boost, would alcohol/water injection increase the horsepower?
Alcohol/water injection will not increase the power usually. However, in areas where the ambient temperature is very high, injecting alcohol/water mixture will lower the inlet charge temperature and this will help produce a power increase.

Do your kits come with a tank?
All of our kits ship without a tank, but include the fittings to convert your existing washer tank for use with our system. Additional tanks can, however, be purchased separately here on this site. We want to let you have the options of what size tank if you need one.

I would like to increase my power output by increasing the boost pressure. Would alcohol/water injection help then?
It all depends, if you have good quality fuel and the ambient temperature is not too high you can normally get away with 2-3 psi of boost increase without using alcohol/water injection and will not run into detonation problems. On the other hand, if you DO NOT have good quality fuel, the ambient temperature is high, or there is a slight tendency for engine knock, then alcohol/water injection or a bigger intercooler is essential.

How much alcohol/water do I need spray?
Most cars should aim for 15% of their total fuel flow. Some more extreme setups run as much as 25% of their total fuel flow.

What kit should I get, Stage 1 or Stage 2?
Our DevilsOwn Stage 1 "Base" injection kit incorporates a boost switch that activates the system at a specific PSI. It’s adjustable from 2-10 psi or 6-30psi, but you can run up to 250 PSI through the switch, so it’s very reliable. This system will turn on at a level you set and stay on until you drop below that level. It’s On/Off. It can’t dial in exact flow, but it can get you within a range.

DevilsOwn Stage 2 "Progressive" kits offer high functionality and performance, the ability to vary the flow based on inputs (maf, map, tps, ait, any 0-5v source). Most users run it off of separate GM style map sensor if there car does not already have a map sensor. With the Stage 2 Kit you set a starting boost and a full boost and the system will progressively adjust the flow between those two points.

Both styles work. We tell our customers that if budget is the primary concern, get the base injection kit. If you have a little more money to spend or want something with more user control, the progressive kit is worth it.

What liquid should i run in this system?
We recommend DevilsOwn Brew, our proprietary methanol blend. Not only does methanol improve your fuel quality, it will also give you a better intercooling effect in the inlet tract.

Denatured alcohol can be used but we strongly advise our customers to use methanol for better, more consistent performance.

What is the maximum alcohol/water ratio your system can handle?
The wetted components in the pump head are chemically compatible with 100% methanol and denatured alcohol. Components are engineered to withstand 100% mixtures for the normal expected life of the product. We recommend not running more than 50/50 mix of water and methanol or other alcohol blends, to reduce the risk of fire and improve consistency and performance.

Does the water "burn" in the engine?
No. The water simply converts from a vapor to a gaseous state which absorbs huge amounts of heat, due to the energy required to transform it.

What supporting upgrades are required for alcohol/water injection?
At minimum, your vehicle should have some sort of engine management that can be tuned, for example, the ability to adjust timing, boost, and fuel curves to compensate for the octane boost and cooling effects, and the ability to take advantage of the adjustments to make power.

You can run alcohol/water injection on a stock car with tunable engine management. It is not necessary to have after-market intakes, exhausts, intercoolers, or strengthened internals. However, with supporting mods that already increase the volumetric efficiency of the engine, more power can be made.

Why not use a windshield washer pump?
Alcohol/water must be injected at above 50psi to properly atomize. Pressure lower than 50psi causes greatly reduced air charge cooling as the result of larger droplets and their reduced total surface area.

What temp does X% of methanol freeze at?
100% Methanol is good to -100 degrees F
50/50% of Water /Methanol is good to -68 degrees F
75/25% of Water/Methanol is good to -25 degrees F
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Re: Hydrogen fuel kit

Post by ChrisG »

A friend of mine runs this in his ford sierra xr6 and it saves him a shite load of money on fuel. He hasnt had any problems in over a year now
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Re: Hydrogen fuel kit

Post by Ron&Gill »

BigBear wrote:LPG is used overseas on the big V8's etc .. You need a big tank and the gains isn't worth the cost.
LPG has been used in Europe and UK for many years already on normal cars with minimal modification and is economically very viable, through reduced fuel consumption and the lower cost of the LPG compared to petrol.

LPG is also used in the Tuk-Tuks in Thailand and the Philipines, in particular in Bangkok this has helped a lot with air polution, or at least the visible air polution. (What you can't see, can't hurt you, right?)

LPG/LNG is also used on big industrial diesel engines like marine diesels and generators.
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Re: Hydrogen fuel kit

Post by BigBear »

ChrisG wrote:A friend of mine runs this in his ford sierra xr6 and it saves him a shite load of money on fuel. He hasnt had any problems in over a year now
Hydrogen / LPG / Meth ??
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Re: Hydrogen fuel kit

Post by BigBear »

Ron&Gill wrote:
BigBear wrote:LPG is used overseas on the big V8's etc .. You need a big tank and the gains isn't worth the cost.
LPG has been used in Europe and UK for many years already on normal cars with minimal modification and is economically very viable, through reduced fuel consumption and the lower cost of the LPG compared to petrol.

LPG is also used in the Tuk-Tuks in Thailand and the Philipines, in particular in Bangkok this has helped a lot with air polution, or at least the visible air polution. (What you can't see, can't hurt you, right?)

LPG/LNG is also used on big industrial diesel engines like marine diesels and generators.
Have heard it is quite a big thing there.
8) not sure, but i think the cost in SA ... Might still be a factor.
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Re: Hydrogen fuel kit

Post by Barry »

BigBear wrote:Hydrogen / LPG / Meth ??
of the crystal variety maybe.....

Basic physics - nothing for mahala. C'mon guys we did this already, it's like deja vu all over again :wink:
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Re: Hydrogen fuel kit

Post by Ron&Gill »

BigBear wrote: heard it is quite a big thing there.
8) not sure, but i think the cost in SA ... Might still be a factor.
LPG in cars: it's a matter of infrastructure, over there, there are fuel stations with LPG pumps. LNG usage on big marine engines is simply the boil off gas from the storage tanks on the ships, keeping the contents cool, that is burned in a normal propulsion diesel engine. This is not done on LPG ships where boil off gas compressors are used because LPG costs more than fuel oil, I was told... (Comment TonyZ?)

Hydrogen: It works as a fuel IF you put a tank in your car and you can fill it from an external source, then you either use it by burning it or you use it in a fuel cell, or energy cell, which is a reverse process of an electrolysis cell where the H2 and O2 is recombined (2H2+O2 = 2H2O) producing electricity for an electric or hybrid car. Currently Governor Arnie (I'll be back) of California is getting the infrastructure installed in the state for these hydrogen cars to be refueled.

I have my reservations. The technology is all good, but "Maak vol, Skaap" takes on a different meaning when you are dealing with hydrogen at 80 bar. With all due respect to the skaap. I don't actually even trust him to check my oil, let alone connect and disconnect an 80b hose containing an explosive gas.

Also, being a scuba diver, I get nervous about filling air tanks because of the treatment the tanks get, and whether they are inspected etc. Imagine 100 000 little fuel-air bombs driving around the city in all kinds of conditions, patina-ed from POS to Rat-look. Fak-that.

And then there is the environmental concern: It takes electricity to electrolyze hydrogen. Where to get it from... Well, obviously not from the alternator in the self same car, ag no :bn: , man, really, guys, think! No, it needs to come from somewhere else. If you don't have a petrol station with a pompjoggie with a BSc MechEng near you, then you would have to make it yourself. Apart from the rather expensive compressor you would need (a clean diving air one coz it has to be oil free otherwise ka-fakking-blueee-by-itself-ee!!) you also need an electrolysis cell. Nasty things those... filled with lye which drops holes in your duco, jeans, skin, eyes etc. But all that's OK, we still need to get to the energy balance.

We all know it takes energy to convert energy from one form to another, so: electrical to chemical to thermal to kinetic, and lets say each process is 66% efficient (which is very realistic, by the way, and very generous), any numpty can very quickly see that it will take twice as much energy in as you get out. 33% x 3 conversions is almost 100% loss... (I know it doesn't quite calculate like that, but for this arguement, it's good enough.) So if electricity is half the cost by kW/hr as the same amount of BTU's of petrol or diesel, then you are indeed onto a cost saver. I suspect not, but let's carry on and say your noble goals transcend money, you are in fact, a tree hugger.

Not always a bad thing if you don't mind paying lots of scheckles to keep the air clean just for some oke driving past in a badly tuned ACVW to fak it all up again in a hurry, no, it's about setting an example... Well, in that case, there is some truth in this. But only if you get your hydrogen made from electricity generated by a nuclear power station, you will actually not contribute to the carbon emmissions while driving your car. Of course you should not breath either, let alone fart. Nor smoke either, but that's because you wouldn't live long enough to feel good and claim credit for being a tree hugger when the earth starts cooling down again. Whether a nuclear MW produces less CO2 than a fossil fuel MW in the bigger CO2 balance of things, eg Uranium enrichments plants, Uranium mines, spent fuel processing plants etc, is another issue.

You could of course electrolyze some hydrogen by wind or solar energy, but why bother, it would take a month to drive a minute. That's a matter of power density. The one factor that tree huggers alway forget about. Or better yet, get your hydrogen straight from the Nuke: radiolytic decomposition of the reactor coolant water results in the production of hydrogen. All you need is lead underjocks...

Hopefully this helps clear the air... :drunks: (still feeling OK, JohnH? :lol: )
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Re: Hydrogen fuel kit

Post by Ron&Gill »

Pine wrote:Please do tell me more about the alcohol injection!

*hic* :drunks:
Beware of alcohol injection. Remember the article about what fuel to use LRP or Unleaded? There it is explained that alcohol is an oxygenated fuel which makes your engine run lean.
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2000 beach buggy - viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10915
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Re: Hydrogen fuel kit

Post by Tony Z »

by the look of that post you must be back at work... Nice one Ron

I am stay away from these conflabs most of the time because very very few people realise that it takes power to make power. Nothing is free.
You said it Ron, you have to make the hydrogen and that in itself isnt cheap. So you pay here and save there... whats the point. And then lets not get into the tree huggers complaining about everything (nuclear included) but then prob being the first to bitch once the power goes out and they cannot update their blogs on how to save the world.

I will make this save the world or your money thing very simple so everyone can understand it.

If you want to save the world - get a bicycle or walk.
If you want to save money - get a scooter
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Re: Hydrogen fuel kit

Post by Ron&Gill »

Tony Z wrote:by the look of that post you must be back at work... Nice one Ron
Yeah, well, I'm not boating, diving, driving, fixing, gardening, braaiing, drinking, partying, nursing, walking, varnishing, cleaning, or sleeping.

I am writing procedures, progress reports and alarm lists for 12 hours a day, so yes, I'm back at work... 5 weeks... But you'll be in CPT when I get home, no? Hoohaa!! :drunks: :drunks:
1964 T34 - The Razor: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10290
1956 T2 1b - Gill's bus: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10948
1967 T316 - viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10931 & viewtopic.php?f=23&t=15977
2000 beach buggy - viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10915
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