Retrovans 1972 Panel Van low light Bay

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retrovan
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Re: Retrovans 1972 Panel Van low light Bay

Post by retrovan »

OK so the Bay saga continues......

As you will remember, I have said the bay was not itself when changing to the G-Tec ignition, and that a sluggish drive followed,

Then I found the distributor has wear and issues which where repaired and fixed.

Only did short drives after that and was under the impression it was sorted.

Well....

Had to take the Bay to Port Alfred to deliver some 6 m pipes in its roof rack, no, this is not an issues as she always does these jobs when needed.

So on the trip, the 1st hill out of Jefferys bay is a hell of a hill and she normally went up without speed lose.

How ever this time I had to change down half way up, but still no problem.

Driving the 245 Km trip she had more and more problems with the hills, but picked up speed easy on the down hills or flat parts.

Nearing Port Alfred she could not get up the hills in higher then 2nd gear, and the last hill just out of PA we had to go down to 1st.

On looking into the engine bay she would idle fine, no problem, but as you accelerate, she would start backfiring.

The higher the motor speed the more she would backfire into both carbs.

But on idle, no back fire.

can start her no problem, fires up 1st time, but will not accelerate without backfiring constantly.

After speaking to my motor gurro, he said its timing, so I removed the G-tec, fitted the old Distributor with points and condenser, same thing.

Fitted the other distributor with built in electronic ignition, same thing.

Set tappets again, no change, disconnected carb link and accelerated each carb by it self, same thing.

Fitted new plugs, same thing.

Now my theory is that the backfire has to come from one valve being open when the spark fires, so as to ignite the fuel in the manifold so as to backfire into the carb.It can not fire into the manifold if there is no point of ignition.

Now you ask what did you find Herman, well.... nothing as I had to get her home 1st to be able to work on her.

So this Friday I went down early, when the sparrows where still clearing their lungs from last nights bad city air, and drove to PA

Fitted the 'a' frame and towed her back with the Fleetline.

Now I must remind you the Bay does not like being "A" framed and does not behave well having broken free from the towbar once before.

So the trip was a cool 4and a half hour return trip but she is safely home without incident.

Will pull her into the workshop and do a compression test and see if there is a chamber problem, then the other possible issues will be looked for one at a time.

Any ideas what it could be ?????????????

Well till later, here are a few photos of the recovery trip.

Herman

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1952 Split Beetle 1835cc
1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc
2020 MeFusco Beetle Truck 2Lt type 4
1972 FT Hahn SP 1776 cc
Haans
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Re: Retrovans 1972 Panel Van low light Bay

Post by Haans »

Herman,...feel with you mate,..as if you don't have enough to worry about. Clear as mud you don't seem to have spark issue

Compression test will direct you,.....valve burnt ???

Talk to us

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Re: Retrovans 1972 Panel Van low light Bay

Post by sean »

If you say the idle is perfect, then I don't believe its a compression issue. Bad compression on a cylinder often shows easiest on idle.

My guess are the 2 following issues.

1st. Carburettor issue / fuelling or air issue. Perhaps blocked main, hence idles fine but leans out immediately when revs pick up. Popping out the carbs is very often a lean mixture. Could also be a very bad vacuum leak, but again, vacuum leak would cause a bad idle, and you say idle is perfect.

2nd. Lifter / camshaft issue. A compression test may show compression 100%, but a failed lifter or lobe on a camshaft could cause this. If your compression is 100%, start motor with tappet covers off and inspect movement on the rockers. They should all have equal movement. If one rocker is not travelling the full distance, you may have a badly failed hydraulic lifter (but you should be able to hear this) or a lobe on the camshaft that has worn away (you cant hear this).

Another nice method I like to use other than a compression test is to measure the exhaust temperature of each manifold pipe. They should all more or less be equal in heat, a drastic temperature difference in one will point to the suspect.
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retrovan
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Re: Retrovans 1972 Panel Van low light Bay

Post by retrovan »

So I have received PM's asking and saying I blame the G-tec, ...

NO !!!! Not at all, I am just saying it as it is, that I noticed problems starting to happen and get progressively downhill in performance.

The jury is still out on what my problems are or what caused it.

But I have ruled out that the Backfire is not due to any ignition system issue as I have changed it a number of times and with a number of different units.

But the moment I find out what is wrong with the engine, I will be able to work out why and what caused it to fail.

Will let you know as I find out more.

Herman
1952 Split Beetle 1835cc
1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc
2020 MeFusco Beetle Truck 2Lt type 4
1972 FT Hahn SP 1776 cc
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retrovan
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Re: Retrovans 1972 Panel Van low light Bay

Post by retrovan »

Thanks for that Sean.

What I have done so far was the following;-

Striped both ICT's and reset the float levels which where right when opened,

Stripped and cleaned both carbs, and found nothing.

tested one carb at a time and found no difference as both carbs performed the same, so both carbs will not fail at exactly the same time.

Looked for vacuum pipes leaks and bridging tubes being loose or off, found none.

Did the distributor swaps and reset timing a few times.

Set the hydraulic tappets again but found no fault.

Must just add these where done at night in a strange garage with bad lighting and minimal tools.

Thats why the effort to get her back home so we have all the means to find the issues at hand.

But keep the ideas coming, we will find out what it is. :shock:

Herman
1952 Split Beetle 1835cc
1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc
2020 MeFusco Beetle Truck 2Lt type 4
1972 FT Hahn SP 1776 cc
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Re: Retrovans 1972 Panel Van low light Bay

Post by Tony Z »

get someone to drive behind you and see if the exhaust is going black when the engine starts giving issues.
Try to pull over when it is going pear-shaped and remove a spark plug to check if its covered in oil or soot or white
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retrovan
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Re: Retrovans 1972 Panel Van low light Bay

Post by retrovan »

As the car would not go up the hill, I had someone drive behind me with their emergency on so no one hits me from the back.

Asked him to look for smoke, or anything else.

He said it was perfect, no smoke at all.

Plugs are black when running long time at revs.

Herman
1952 Split Beetle 1835cc
1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc
2020 MeFusco Beetle Truck 2Lt type 4
1972 FT Hahn SP 1776 cc
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Re: Retrovans 1972 Panel Van low light Bay

Post by Tony Z »

your backfiring....
is it like a bang/gunshot or more of a pop/sneeze?
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retrovan
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Re: Retrovans 1972 Panel Van low light Bay

Post by retrovan »

Its somewhere in between, as the rev's clime its small pops which increase in magnitude into backfires

This starves the pistons which brings down the revs again.

Its not your normal exhaust one loud bang but many smaller bangs

Herman
1952 Split Beetle 1835cc
1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc
2020 MeFusco Beetle Truck 2Lt type 4
1972 FT Hahn SP 1776 cc
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Re: Retrovans 1972 Panel Van low light Bay

Post by Tony Z »

check that balance hose on the ict's
the one that comes with the kit is very easy to break/tear
also, when idling, spray quick start all over the carbs and hoses and listen for a change in sound. If there is a change, its a vacuum leak. If you dont have quickstart, use deodorant or doom or anything aerosol except brake cleaner or carb cleaner.

Are the carbs synchronized perfectly?
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Re: Retrovans 1972 Panel Van low light Bay

Post by Dawie »

Vw used a different, stronger valve spring on the hydraulic cam engines. Few people know about this. Apparently the hydraulic tappets became pumped up too much under certain conditions.
Oil type might also influence this.

My father had a 1970 GM Ranger with the chev 2.5 engine. It constantly had issues with its hydraulic lifters. Then did exactly as you described.
Staying Aircooled is so much nicer.
Do'nt assume anything- (While doing fault-finding).
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Re: Retrovans 1972 Panel Van low light Bay

Post by german »

Coil?
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retrovan
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Re: Retrovans 1972 Panel Van low light Bay

Post by retrovan »

Thanks guys, will look into all these things, during the week.

As we have had noting but bitter cold weather and rain the whole day, I have not been able to do a thing.

Will probably do the compression test in the car, and the other easy things as per leaks, but will be pulling the engine if nothing is found.

The reason for pulling the engine is two fold, one its easier to look at seals, pipes and valves with the engine out,

but also as I have to get the rotten bell housing off the gearbox that was sold to me as a perfect working gearbox.

The reason is the starter bush was worn out and the starter rubs on the armature.

Have a replacement, thanks to Pierre, and will fix the old one with insert and re-machining the bush center.

This will then go onto my engine stand, for starting workshop engine inspections.

Till later

Herman
1952 Split Beetle 1835cc
1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc
2020 MeFusco Beetle Truck 2Lt type 4
1972 FT Hahn SP 1776 cc
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retrovan
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Re: Retrovans 1972 Panel Van low light Bay

Post by retrovan »

german wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:43 pmCoil?
Have just got me a new Blue Bosch coil and will be testing this as well, thanks

Herman
1952 Split Beetle 1835cc
1968 Fastback 2Lt.type4
1972 Low Light Bay Panel Van 2Lt type 4
1975 Fleetline Panel Van 1914cc
2020 MeFusco Beetle Truck 2Lt type 4
1972 FT Hahn SP 1776 cc
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Re: Retrovans 1972 Panel Van low light Bay

Post by acpaterson »

Mmm.
Whats the Batt voltage like and is the alt/gen working? I experienced a similar experience a few months back, discovered my battery was dying, and the voltage wasn't sufficient\wasn't holding charge. After replacing new batt, it was good again.

Alan
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